Club is in the best place to find a level but the bar is where I go. 8th of May, do you know what today is? Today is 8th of May? Yeah, it's Estelle's birthday. Estelle! Estelle! Happy birthday to Estelle Jack's mum, Estelle. Yeah, not the singer of American Boy. Your choices shape your success. Right. So where do we find good in our reasoned choices? Where do we find evil in our reasoned choices?

And what about the things that are neither good nor evil? They lie beyond our own reasoned choices. Easy for me to say, Epictetus. Yes, yes it is. So this gets me thinking about reverse engineering things. Something that we like to call the magic of maths and it's understanding your numbers. I think everything in life can be broken down to a maths equation. That's one of my catchphrases at the moment. Very Saying it a lot.

If you're a salesperson and you're thinking about reverse engineering things and you're thinking about maths, where would you start math, math, math, mathy math? So what I would say, put your target on the board, right? Write down your title or a piece of paper, write down your target and then work back from there in layers. Right? So you want to go, right? There's my target. And then let's say you're a business that

gets proposed that that's the step before sale. How many proposals do I need to hit that target? So that might be, let's say it's four, make it nice and easy. Cause I'm not very good at math. So that might be four proposals to hit that target. Right. Now how many discovery calls do you need to hit proposal? need eight. Keep it nice and easy. Yeah. How many conversations with people have a problem? Do you need 16? See what I'm doing? ⁓

how many dials might it take, how many, and then you can really build out this kind of layered pyramid of steps that need to happen to tick each box, hit your ⁓ target. Now, the reason why this is really useful and why it links to stoicism so well, Jack, because I imagine you were about to ask me, how does this link to stoicism? Is because we can often, because of the way selling feels, and it's quite an emotional thing,

we can think I'm having a bad month. It's the market. It's the product I'm selling. It's the buyer didn't like me. You can kind of get in your own head and go down this feeling spiral where if you just look at the numbers, you can see objectively, well, have I actually done enough to do the bit? So there's definitely a thing of, I mean, we see it with our own team, don't we? There's a thing of spotting, is this a skill issue or is this just a volume issue? And I think,

nine times out of 10 when we're speaking to potential clients and you say, well, how many calls are your team making? How many conversations are they having? I spoke to someone the other day, he said their team, each person does 10 calls a day. It's like, well, of course you're never going to get anywhere. Do you know what mean? What have you got to add though? Because I'm seeing the look in your eyes. It's actually quite erotic. Well, I was just thinking, I'll tell you what I was genuinely thinking. I was thinking me and you walking around the streets of Manchester saying

Do you want this sales stoic podcast or do you want to double it and give it to the next stoic? That's what I was thinking. They want to double it. Yeah. And I was thinking a bit of a bonus tip on that is for a business leader or a sales leader or business owner. Do you understand the numbers that you need for your team? So if you're a team leader that's leading the sales team, do you understand the numbers, the needs go into it? Okay. And do you also understand the numbers that an individual needs?

So you probably like when you're looking at your report, it's very easy to say you haven't hit the profit. You haven't hit the target and berate a sales team rather than motivate them. Whereas actually if it's mid month and somebody looks like they're not on track to here, it could be a case of looking at it. Like you were saying there and going, but they're doing all the input. So what, where, where are they failing here? I need to know the data tells a beautiful story that you can understand, or you can say.

their magic numbers, they need to be doing this, but they're not doing that. Let me have a conversation with them. And rather than going up to you and just off the cuff saying, I don't feel like you're doing enough dials, that's going to get you back up. That's not going to make you motivated. Maybe it's a case of Zach, you're doing 50 a day in order to get to this target. You probably need to be doing 80 a day. How can I get you there? We go, well, I spend a lot of time on this, this and this. Okay, well, let's get AI to do that. Let me take that off your desk. Let's give that to Sandra and admin.

Cool, can you focus on getting to 80? Because if you get to 80, you're gonna hit your target. So as a sales leader as well, I think it's so important that you know your numbers. And we have those conversations all the time where we're sitting down with business leaders and they go, yeah, I don't really know my conversion rate or I don't know the numbers that my team need to do. So work out, is it input? Is it skill? And if it's skill, then you can get in the weeds and start to understand it. If it's input,

Have that logical conversation with your team and be like, you're here, you need to be here, and then you'll achieve X, which means you get to whatever your North Star is. Really, really nice man. I don't normally agree with you, but I can find no hole in that. And I don't think we'd have fun, but I think we are. I've been Jack Frimston. I've been Zack Thompson. Remember you will die. Plants? I don't think so.